Theis, Geneva M. - Interview and Memoir

              University of Illinois at Springfield 
Norris L Brookens Library 
Archives/Special Collections 

Geneva M. Theis Memoir 

T341. Theis, Geneva M. (1905-1979) 
Interview and memoir  
2 tapes, 120 mins., 36 pp.  

Theis discusses her career in nursing: nursing education, assignments, duties, and 
work and life in Illinois and Montana. Also discusses her work and involvement 
in professional nursing organizations.  

Interview by Melinda Kwedar, 1975 
OPEN 
See collateral file 

Archives/Special Collections LIB 144 
University of Illinois at Springfield 
One University Plaza, MS BRK 140 
Springfield IL 62703-5407 

© 1975, University of Illinois Board of Trustees 
Preface 
'!his ma!ruscript is the product of tape-recorded interviews conducted by Melirrla KWedar for the Oral History Office in July, 1975. MargaretReeder transcribed the tapes and Linda Jett edited the transcript. 
Geneva M. Theis was bam in Greendale, In:liana. After spending he:r childhood with her family, she graduated from high school in Peoria, Illinois. She entered Bradley university and after one year, she decided to pursue her dream of becoming a nurse. She entered the Morris School of Nursing affiliated with Bradley University. After finishing her education, she began her career as a nurse. Her reminiscences of her nursing career provide valuable infomation a1 what being a nurse was like from 1927 until her retirement on A.ugust31, 1974. In addition, there is a discussion of her association with the university of Illinois Division of Services for crippled Chlldn:'en and of the various crippled children clinics. Geneva Theis belonged to various nursing and professional clubs over the years. She tells of her involvement in the Montana Historical Society and of her interest in geology. Her memoir includes recollections of her nursing career in Montana and in Illinois, the women's movement, her hobbies, and. her achievements. 
Readers of the oral history memoir should bear in mind that it is a transcript of the spoken word, and that the interviewer, narrator and editor sought to preserve the infonnal, conversational style that is inherent in such historical sources. 5angamon State university is not responsible for the factual accuracy of the memoir, nor for views expressed therein; these are for the reader to judge. 
'Ihe manuscript may be read, quoted and cited freely. It may not be reproduce:i in whole or in part by any means, electronic or mechanical,without pennission in writing from the Oral History Office, sangamonState Uni~ity, Springfield, Illinois 62794-9243. 
Geneva M. Theis, July, 1975, Carlinville, Illinois. 
Meli.rda ~,Interviewer. 
Q: Miss Theis, let's start talking about your early life. Wher:e were you bom and what do you remember about your childhood? 
A: I feel that my childhQod was very interesting. I was bom in a beautiful hame as I recall in Greendale, Indiana. I was a very snell baby and I often remember my family telling me about car:rying me arou.J."d on a pillow. I weighed around three poums When I was bom and in that day to live was rather remarkable. 
Q:. Were you a premature baby? 
A: 
No, I was a full time baby but it seems my nother had probably worked too hard or something and so that's l.tlhat happened. At least that's the way I. understand it. Not·~at the time I can't confirm it. But this was in Greendale, Ind.J.ana. My father was George 

w. 
Theis who was bom also in lawrenceburg, Indiana, just out of Greendale, and my mother was bom in Manchester. Her name was Katherine Drout Theis. My father was a cooper, that you would not think or hear of today for the very good reason that Iawrencebtu:g was famous for shingling liquor and whiskey. It was one of the biggest in the world at the time. To build or make barrels--you don't really build them. I often took my father's lunch dOI'tll'l to him and watched them work on the barrels. They were very refined and beautiful by the time they wer:e finished. This really was his source of livelihood. 


My father was a very worrlerful person to us. He loved all of us very much. My mother did in her own way but she was much more the taskmaster. I remember as a child working in the garden, which I'fns sure most children don't do today, because we always had huge gard • With six girls and one boy it was necessa:cy to feed quite a few mouths. I can well remember debugging those potatoes, those nasty\ old bugs but ncM I guess they wouldn't bother me at all. Picking the peas and picking the beans. But I think probably the most interesting part of my life was pertlaps working aver in the cormnercial ben.y farms. It was necessa:cy for us to sort of help earn our own noney. You woulcln' t hear of a commercial ber.ty farm today. As a matter of fact I was just talking to Bertha who was the only girl in this family and I was just sort of part of the family. Very often I stayed with them aver the weekend. because even though I was just a little girl, we sort of bec.ame good friends. We picked red raspberries and we picked straW};Ierries and we picked black raspberries and blackberries, cherr,tes. I only wish I could have a few of them ncM. But I thin1c. they are almost unavailable except for a few rare patches perhaps in some.bcbdy1s backyard. But it was fun riding in that old buckboard 
2
Geneva M. Theis 
wagon. He would meet us at the e:nd of the carline and all of us wbuld get on the wagon and go out to the farm. '!hen he would take us back that night t6 the car again, the streetcar I should say. It was the old.,..fashioned streetcars. I wonder hOW' many of you remember those old-fashioned streetcars that didn1t have any sides on them? '!hey were St.m'II!Ier cars during the SJ.m'011.er. 
Q: Did they run in the winter? 
A: No, because see they are all open but they are real interesting to ride on. 
Q: Now this went into your town of Greendale? ' 
I 
A: No. This was by the time I had got to Peoria because we 100V'eC1) to Illinois when I was just•-first to Pekin by the way and I was just! a preschooler and I can remember the picture of our family. In fact I had it in nr:1 hands recently sitting on the front porch. Everyone jdressed in white starched dresses. As a matter of fact nr:1 mother stayed up most of the night to make my dress which was really a 
1 
beautiful embroidered ruffled dress. We enjoyed Pekin. While we iiere there my brother used to play with Eve:rett Dirksen who was of C01.1rf;e one of our most famous statesman. It's too bad we don't have~ more like him today. I remember Everett Dirksen when I grew up, II might say for the very good reason although I shouldn't be deviati.tlg at a time like this. I was president of our district· and in chal:.'gi3 of our state nurses meeting in Peoria and he was our speaker and all.: But he really was a silvert.oned orator, very much so. 
Q: Do you remember him as a young boy? 
A: I don•t, because I was too young at the time. 
Q: Your brother was what position in the family? 
A: He was second from the oldest and. I'm second. from the youngest. You see there was six girls and one boy. There was something else I had put in before that I can't recall. Oh, to go back to my broth.er whose name was William Jennings Bryan. He was named after the f~ statesman. Although Bryan was never elected president he still a very wonderful person. He's been interesting as far as nr:1 life is concerne:i for the very good reason that I worked. in the territory while worki.rg with the University of Illinois Division of services for Crippled Children where he was bom in Salem, Illinois which ncM has been declared. a national shrine. 
Q: 'Ihe whole town? 
A: His .birthplace has been declared a national shrine. 
Q: Where is salem located? 
A: In Marion country, it's down south and east from here. I had ~ght counties that I had to COV'er, that1s why. But it's an int.erEtsti.ng little old house but today there also rests as part of the 
I ! 
I 
3
Geneva M. 'Iheis 
national shrine a monument to him or really it's a sculpture of William Jennings Bryan which was done by the famous sculptor that sculptured Mount Rushmore. It was the Lincoln, Nebraska Historical Society who actually commissioned these two sculptures of Bcyan. One stayed in Lincoln because it seems they have great respect for hiro.. Another reason I'm interested in him, I can remember well my mother telling me about in Indiana when Bryan was at that time campaigning, t:.aJd.n;J my brother because he was named after him, and riding in a surrey with fringe on the top. 
Q: He was campaigning for the presidency at that time? 
A:  '!bat's right, he was.  
Q:  Do you know what year that was?  
A:  No,  I  don't because I wasn't bon1 yet.  I wasn't even in  

existence. 
Q: I guess you wouldn1t remember, would you? 
A: I remember that because of my mother having told me. As I've told you after I moved. into Montana I met this Mrs. Amos whose father~ Dr. Harry Hlmnington and was a chaplain for the William Jennings Bryans starting at Lincoln, Nebraska. He went around the world with the Bryan family and he also wrote a beautiful biography which I had the great pleasure of reading the manuscript. It was never published. in book fonn for the very good reason that Dr. Hl.mtington said that he couldn't afford it at the time and Bryan's name by this time had died. down in the united. states. But it was serialized. in the Lincoln, Nebraska papers and now the manuscript is in the libracy in Lincoln, Nebraska Historical Libraxy. As I told you too, a1though this is not in my childhood again but it reminds me of that. This friend of :rrlne found in her father's very wond.erful librcuy, and Dr. Huntington was possibly as great a man as BJ:yan was when you read his obituary, found these books that were autographed by Bcyan. She was kind enough to send several copies to the Illinois Historical Librcuy and the rest went to Lincoln Historical Library. 
Q: Oh, they are here in Springfield? 
A: Yes, right in Springfield. Now to go back to our childhocd again. 
Q: I did want to verify William Jennings Bcyan was of the Scopes' trial fame, right? 
A: '!bat's right I was reading that the other day too about his being in the Scopes1 trial. Well to go back further then in my childhocxl. I first went to the Garfield School. 
Q: And this was in Peoria? 
A: This was in Peoria and this was in the lower end of town and t::J'len in my later years we :moved up on the bluff. I would like to tell you about one incident my mother was really, as I've told you told befbre, 
4
GeneVa M. 'lheis 
a tas'kmaster. I was baking this chcx::olate cake because I was an ardent church goer and they told me why ·didn•t I take my bed and ll'IDV'e aver to church same of these days. That1s what they did tell mEl . because I was there morning, noon and night. I belonged and went to 
SUnday SChool, the Junior En:leavor and there was church and I went to 
the Intermediate Endeavor and tagged along with Senior Christian lI En:leavor but I always tagged alonq. our home :t:¥ the way, was always! ! . open for oa.npany and we would have as high as f1fteen and sixteen 
besides our c:mn 	seven in our family in the home many times. My mother
l 	could always find samethinq to eat. I think this is the advantage of having a nice garden and having the fruit camed, etc. because I used to help do this canning too by the way. Where was I? 
Q: 'Ihe cake? 
A: 'Ihe cake, well I was busy scrubbinq the floor which was a WO<:Xi4m floor which you don't hear of today and some people never scrubbedi theirs anyway as I found out during my career. I always had to p.::>lish that stove within an inch of its life on Saturday, this was my job. Really there is another thing when I go back, I had to clean out the bedroom and we had this bed that wasn't very high and I bumped my head and had to crawl under the bed and clean under the be:i. Well anyway the cake fell into the scrub pail when I was scrubbinq the kitchen. That was the moral. A sad story. so anyway my mother· was quick on aey emergencies and she went out to the henhouse and the hens had been kind enough to lay enough eggs so I could take the eggs to the bake sale. That hel:pe:l a lot. 
Q: Now continuing with your schooling? 
A: After I graduated from Glen oaks School I went to Peoria central High School. 1here were two high schools at that timEl in Peoria, the Manual Traininq High School and Peoria central. 'Ibis oldest sister of mine did teach at Manual and when I finished high school she was detennined that I should go on to Bradley. I enjoyed Bradley very much but I always as a little girl wanted to be a nurse. 
Q: Why do you think you wanted to be a nurse? 
• • t 	1
A: To look back 1n my 11fetlllle I 1m not so sure exactly why I wan~ to be a nurse. , 
Q: Did you ever think about beinq a doctor? 
A: No that never once entered my nrl.ni to be a doctor but I wanted to be a nurse. I think I had love for people and I like to take care of people. You have to have love for people in omer to do this and you have to have understarding too. un:ierstanding to mEl is one of the main qualifications. If you don't urdersta.rd people you just. don't know hc:w because everybcdy has a different disposition and sometimes you dOn't tl.n:lerstand them. Anyway I did go to Bradley for this year ani I decided I was goinq into nurse's training ani I was accepted•. Then at the errl of the first year I had been ill from scarlet fev~ and I had lost five months training wch I had to make up which I 1 didn't exactly care about but I had to do it in order to finish. X 
Geneva M. 'lheis 
dreamed that wh¥ doesn1t Morris School of Nursing affiliate with : Bradley Univers1ty which at that time was called Bradley Polytechrdc rather than a uni.verstiy. Why couldn't we affiliate with the sta~ hospital? our director of nurses really thought I was way out~ I had this idea and strange as it may seem my dreams both came true : although I will have to admit that the state hospital has been clq3ed but they do get their psychiatric nursing in their courses of course. As you Jmow Methodidst Hospital is now called Methodist Medical CEl'lter and. it1s affiliated with the university of Illinois and ther are training inten"ls there. It's one of the largest hospitals m the state. '!hey have just taken up blocks and blocks to add on to the hospital. I have been told that I wouldn't even recognize any part. of the hospital if I went into it. 
Q: Now can you still get a three-year nursing course there? 
A: Yes, this is very interesting too because somebody made a COlt'II0011t to me about the Illinois Nurses Association which slightly irritated me because I have felt greatly responsible to my own profession and to my professional organization. I have belonged ever since I was out of training. They tried to say that the nurses had something to do with appointing this carmnission. I Jmow very little about this except that I have read recently and you have probably read too that HEW is the one who had this taken care of but it was not the Illinois Nurses [Association], they had nothing to do with it. 
Q: Had to do with what? 
A: With closing the diploma schools. You asked about our school,: our school has a four-year course which is affiliated with Bradley and also has a diploma school plus a two-year school. 
Q: I see so there is the option still? 
A: Of course I Jmow that for instance the school in Springfield is closed. I know that but I don't know why. 
Q:  So some diploma schools have been closed.?  
A:  '!bat1s  the only one I  actually know of.  
Q:  Arrl a diploma school means that you only get three years of  

nursing training and no degree? 
A: 'Ihat's right but you can go on and get a degree at our school now. It depe.rrls on how you wish to follow through. But even so, Bradley helped me in nursing. When I was at the University of Minnesota nw credits were good. and the nursing school and all. So this was ~ly of great value to me and I was alwaye glad. I might add in here ~t did take me twenty-four years to get rrrt degree but it was worth it in the eni because it helped me in rrrt field work and in every activicy I participated in at the university. 
Q: BUt you did have your nursing degree and you graduated in wha~ year? j 
: . 
j 
6
Geneva M. 'Iheis 
A: In 1927. 
Q: In 1927 and then what did you do? 
A: I feel very grateful and I feel that I'm not saying something !out of line here. I've never had to ask for a job or a position and I think this is something to be grateful for but I had field work with the visiting nurse staff while I was in traini.rq. One day the director, who lived just across the street from me made mention tci me, "When are you going to buy your coat?" Well I hadn't the slightest idea what she was talking about at the moment and so then she went on and said, ''We'd like to have you on the visiting nurse staff." I actually only had done six months of private duty you see before I started on the visiting nurse staff. I was on the staff fourteen years and the experiences on that staff were really and truly valuable and it was maybe a summer session that being able to give me twenty-five dollars to go up to Minnesota to help me during this summer session. I had to pay the rest of the expenses but that h peel nevertheless because you had your train fare, etc. But to go ba. to VNA the experiences were rich, they were just really wonderful. 
Q: Now this VNA is Visiting Nurses Association, is this a state organization? 
A: No, this is a local and usually :maintained through your ~ty funds. Today I think if people could afford. to pay and we did ha$ some wealthy people that would pay for their care. ' 
Q: We do have one in Springfield I'm sure. 
A: I knov..r you do. 
Q: But each one is separate, there is no state bureaucracy or agcincy right? So each corrnnunity has their own. 
A: Each community has it's own Visiting Nurses Association. That is really histo:cy, the VNA. In Boston, I have after heard. a lady talk about Boston. While this one time when I was on VNA and I had the north end of town and honestly I had the redlight district. Maybe they don't call it the redlight district here but we sure had it in those days. 
Q: Peoria, yes. 
A: I had the black district, I had a lot of blacks in my district but I also had some very wo:rrlerful people in my district. But this one day I was dcMn by the riverbank and we had just a few cars, maybe about two OJ: three cars so sometimes the nurses would share. The nurse that was with me that day is dead nov..r but we worked together a great deal and I think about her often. I was up there in this little shack along the river and there was a railroad track in front of us but then came a small area of grouni and a hill and then there was the river. All of a sudden this wind came up and this poor little girl by the WiiY was living in this house. Ib you remember seeing these old studip couches? Well they weren't called studio couches then they 
! 
Geneva M. 'lheis 
' 
. I 
' 
were a kind of spring and they put a mattress aver them and theyfolded. down. AnyWay they had coats for a mattress and coats on tqp of her and she was red with measles. I'll never forget that and then this win:l became more vicious and vicious and I could see thingscoming up, articles coming up the railrad track. I was reallypetrified at this time. I was president of our SUnday School class and it was our mothers and daughters banquet that night. It was very
important I got home and got ready for that and finally I said I'm going out whether or no and they didn't want me to. 'Ihis little shack was wired to a tree tnmk and it was a tornado no less and I went 
right out into it and they said the luckiest thing I had ever done was 
to open that door to let air through• 
Q: '!hat1s right you are supposed to do that. 
A: By the time, do you remember the old Avery Factocy? Well theymade the Harvester machine. Of course it's no longer in existence but it was down the railroad tracks from where I was and this is of CQUrSe about where Rose had the car. She was down on the floor of the cctr. Well of course a tornado can take a car and lift it right up you 1p1ow and before I got to that car the skies opened up and I was drench+:! to the skin but nevertheless I thanked God that I was able to get harje.Another time during nry period was with a Visiting Nurses staff Ine1lber who knew of this nurse's vacation home out in Boston. It was vacation time and we were out at this vacation home and Christine was a ver;ywonderful hostess. '!here were nurses there from all over the countrywhich made it very interesting. We ate all the kinds of fish that came out of the ocean, lobster, crabs, etc. One day Christine sa)fs,"It feels, looks and sounds like a hurricane." We did mana~e to 9et into Boston because we were getting ready to come home and m thai; hotel I shall never forget. They kept saying, "Don't go near the ;windows, don't go near the doors. 11 You could hear the glass sla:rra:ting and breaking and there was a hurricane no less and I think it did a tremendous amount of damage. I know we had to stay in the hotel three or four days before we were allowed to take off to get home. 
Q: Now this was in Boston? 
A: 'Ihis was in Boston, right. But it was from this nurse's vacation home and it was through the VNA that I happened to get out there. Anyway to go back to the redlight district, I don't think I'd mentioned that I had taken care of a baby in the redlight district. This seemed. a little odd I '11 grant you that but it was in one of the houses and it was in one of the rooms and they watched me like a hawk I might say but they did have everything in readiness for me. 
Q: '!he baby was already born? 
A: 'Ihe ~was born there but the VNA went in to take care pfnewbanl bab1es and mothers. That was part of the service. VNA of course, that was Metropolitan Insurance, that was another thing that was good, Metropolitan Insurance. I might say that it was through the Met.rcp:>litan Insurance that I was taken care of this one time when I was so sick. This is really what gave me the idea. I said it wa~ when a woman asked about the coat but it was this time when I was jso 
l 
I 
i 
! 
Geneva M. 'Iheis 8 
ver.y ill JJrf mother had Metropolitan Insurance ani it paid for ~ing care through Visiting Nurses staff ani this nurse was so good to me I realized then and t.herf:i that I wanted to be a visiting nurse. But I didn't realize why this woman asked me about the coat. 
Q: I don't know that I'm too straight about the coat. 
A: Well I wasn't either at the time but she wanted me to get a winter coat because it was getting winter ani I needed one for VNA. '!hey had special coats· they wore, very special coats they wore. 
Q: Like a unifonn coat? 
A: '!hat's right. See we had to wear a grayish blue, chambray blue they called it, uniforms with white starched collar and white cuffs. I might say the day of that hurricane JJrf collar and JJrf cuffs were not starched by the time I got to the car. But this was the reason. We did have uniforms to wear and you don't have any fear really with ;that uniform no matter where you were and I was in some weird homes. · 
Q: Now did you spend the night there with taking care of babies? 
A: Oh no, we would maybe hit four ani five and. six cases and maybeeight cases a day. 
Q: Arrl you just went like for a spot check? 
A: No we went in to bathe the mother and the baby and bathe a patientwho might have cancer or might have something else wrong. Whatever needed. to be done. We didn't clean up the room but we at least cleaned. up our mess that we might have made. Changed the bed and made the patient canfortable. 
Q: But you did not spend days? 
A: No, we did not. Because this was the matter of just givingservice per se to the patient and going on to the next patient dur;ingthe course of the day. Of course we had very expert records on these ~,too. '!here were several doctors who even gave much great cajre.I can: remember one who gave a lot of free care and then this familytried to sue the doctor because something happened. I 111 never forgetthat as long as I live. After they had been given the free care. Nevertheless it just didn't materialize. But during this time with the VNA there was a little girl and a little boy that I was greatly in~ed in. I took this little girl up horne one time. She stayed 
sev lYeeks with us and she came up every once in awhile to visit 
with • · My mother just loved her arxl I always felt so pleased, she was eighteen years of age when my m:>ther died, and here she came up to the funeral home and visited my mother at the end. of the funer~l. Which I thought was remarkable. '!he little boy I might say, we couldn't adopt either one of them which I had hoped we could, Ill{mother a.rd myself, because I was still single. '!hat is not true qE the law today but it was true of the law in those days. But that i 
littl4l boy was adopted by some friends of ours and I haven't the ' slightest idea where they are anymore. 
-···---·-·-_____L_______ _ 
Geneva M. 'lheis 
91 

Q: SO where did this little girl live that you could not adopt J? 
A: 'Well she lived in the north end of tcM:n where I worked and she 
lived with her parents. '!his little boy lived. with his parents but somehow they were a poor family and they needed help and the pare11ts were willing if somebody wanted to adopt him. 
Q: so you lived with your mother? Was your father alive at that time? 
A: No, my father has been dead quite a ffM years now. He was sixty-five years of age when he died. I discovered. that when I was reading the obituary the other day. 
Q:  About how old were you at that time,  were you young?  
A:  No,  I  was a  registered nurse by that time.  
Q:  Now the other melt1bers of your family, your siblings were all  

married is that true? 
A: I would like to go back to my oldest sister that didn•t want ne to go into nurse's training. I was in the hospital at the time the second baby was to be bom and this has always seemed such a myste:r:y 
to me but life is a mystecy in itself when one thinks about. Theytalk about death being a mystery but I think life is just as much 1so. She came out to visit with me and she put her anns around me and She said, "You know I love all my sisters but I love you most of all<1 and she just squeezed me and somehow we could never let go. We just -4oved each other and she said, "I'11 never see you again, " and she neveJ:t saw me again. She also said she was going to have a broN!l-eyed. boy. The very next morning she was dead by the time I arrived at her home. · As I said it was way below zero, it was cold, the snow was deep and. qp as high as the wheels of the car and the ruts were bad. They managed to get me horne safely but she did not know me at the time. The little brown-eyed boy was killed when he was seven years of age. A gargage truck ran over his face. So she does have him with her. 
Q: Now your other sisters, do they do you have any children? Do youhave nieces and nephews? 
A: '!his is the only sister that is deceased. I have a younger sister in Jacksonville and I have two sisters in Peoria and I have one in Rome. My brother is deceased. I would like to mention here againabout nt:f one sister who had two daughters and both were registere:i nurses. The one is the supel:Vising nurse at the newborn nursery at Methcxlist Hospital Medical Center from eleven at night until seven in the npming. Her sister died when she was thirty-seven years of agewith cancer~ It was rather tragic. Her father also had died with cancer. one younger sister has a son, Jensen, who by the way' is a geologist, that's my interest in geology. I had never finished myeducation you might say. Finally after Montana gave me money for a stipend for a three-months course at the university because I was needing it. I had to have that much more education and out there ;r did ~rk in three different counties. 
Geneva M. 'lheis 
Q: Now how did you get that from the Visiting Nurses? 
•j 
I 	A: A letter came from Florence Whiwle who was then the director of Nursing in the state Board of Health in Montana saying that she thought I might be interested.. As a matter of fact, one of my old supexvisors was on the staff out there at the time. I decided ~ you don't just sta:y in a rut that one must go forward and. not backwards or stay m a rut and. this would inlprove my learning process and. experience too. And I worked in Butte. By the way if you've never been to Butte in years past you 'WOUld never recognize it today, I might say, because the whole east errl of town is no longer there. It is open pit ~-completely gone. 
Q: What kind of mining is that? 
A: 	Top. You know that Butte was known as the richest hill on eaztth· i 
Q: You mean they actually tore down houses? 
J 
A: <ll, yes, houses are gone, the old hotel I think might still there. '!he School of Mines you see, my nephew went to the School f Mines at Butte. That was another reason I sort of wanted to go out west because he was there, too. I said I would go if I could have Butte, workirg out of Butte and it happened to be open. It was an interesting town. Talk about New York. Butte, Montana was not much different than New York. 'Ihe different kirrls of elements of population was amazing. 'Ihe Chinese one door, a nigger in the next door or a Mexican in the next door, it was just fascinating and this 
; was what made it so interesting to work in.' 
I 
\ 
' 
Q: What was your job there? 
A: I was Public Health nurse which was a generalized program at the time. I met a teacher there at the time and. this teacher and I uaed to, there was a little area they called the Flats out of Butte which was down over the hill and we used to go up there and teach these little sunday School classes, a little mission school. We just took
l . 
it 'UJ;Xln ourselves to do this and the little tots sometimes would fall 
off the chairs and it was fun doing this. I met some of the most 
interesting people around there. 
Q: was that instead of a public school? 
A: '!his was a mission, a church school. 
Q: Sb it was a private school? 
A: It was a church, a sunday School. 
Q: Oh just on sundays I see. 
I 
A: 'Well I had the parochial schools there not the public schools iI interestingly enough but the nuns were always my best friends. ~y talk abolt the freedom of the nuns today. I think we started. ba. then JU.ready. 
f 
I 
I 
: 
GeneVa M. 'lheis 
11  
Q:  Probably in the west.  !  
A:  Because the nuns would come and have lunch with me.  This was !  

especially true before I got to Helena, I moved to lewistown, Mon~. Talk about making history, it did make the Montana~ine of Western History. In the summer issue they actually were abOUt wom:m for a change and what they had contributed to make history. 
Q: 'Ibis was a whole magazine sto:cy? 
A: Well they devoted a certain section to it and I belong to the Montana Historical Society yet. 
Q: What year was this1 do you know? 
A: 'Ibis was just last year this magazine that I . . . 
Q: The magazine was just last year then? 
A: Oh yes the one I'm talking about was the summer edition. It's one of the most wonderful magazines I've ever read. Arryway I've decided that they left out some of the most important people in Montana who helped make history. For instance I had lived in Lewistown, Montana and the whole county was named for the family. Fergus was named after her uncle and there were several towns that were named after her sisters and her brother-in-law. So I would say they made history. 
Q: So who was this nCM? What was her name? 
A: Her name was Margaret Rauch. 
Q: And her maiden name was Fe:rgus and that was the name of the county? 
A: Yes and you might be interested in knowing too that he has a cousin who lives in Springfield. He was from Waverly, her husband, a Mr. Rauch, and I always thought it was kind of interesting. The nuns there though actually, I was president of the nurses district again and it was predominately nuns. I think there were only alxsut three or four of us who were not nuns. But these nuns and. I were very very close frien:ls. I don't care when I went down there. We held our clinics there of course1 we had two a year, crippled Children they were, and I was responsible for the crippled Children's Clinics believe it or not although I was working a generalized program, but I was responsible for all that. 
Q: Now you were president of what at that time? 
A: Of the District Nurses Association. 
Q: 'Itrls was a professional organization? 
A: f:was part of the Montana Nursing Association and everytime I'd 
go there they would give me cookies or coffee or something this ne nurse she wrote to me for a: long time after I came back. All 
i . 
f 
\ : 
i . 
! ' 
l 
GeneVa M. 'lheis 
of a sudden she wrote and said, "If I never write to you again doni't think anytl::lirq of it.11 I never knew what happened. From there of course I was called. to Helena then and in Helena of course there you meet really interesting people too. '!his is where I met Mrs. Amos who's father was Dr. Harry Huntington. I met her really in Butte I should say when it comes right down to it because I took care of her first baby there. 
Q: How long were you in Butte? 
A: Well altogether I was out in Montana six years, I can't tell you the exact times. 
End. of Side One, Tape One 
Q: so you went from Butte to Helena? Did you change jobs at thai 
time? 
A: No I was still doing generalized. public health nursing in Hel • You might be interested in knowing, you've heard "WOOd ticks are ' famous.. Remember the Rocky Mountain spotted fever that caused sucn a terrible death rate? Well we gave the Rocky Mountain spotted fever vaccine an:i if you•ve ever had it you 'WOUld recognize it in a hurry because it really is one of the most potent ki.n:3s of vaccines I've ever had injected in my anatomy. But you were glad to have it in order to keep yourself from getting the Rocky Mountain spotted. fev~ that caused all the deaths prior to that time. But I was very very active in rrrt professional ol:.'gailization all the time I was in Montana. I was elected the state chairman of the Public Health section of the Montana Nurses Association. During that time I was sent back to New York City where the council of Branches, public health nurses, frora the variC>US states of the united. states met and some of the most famous nurses were there. Like Mary Gardner, who wrote the book on nursing was one for instance. I remember there we got in this terrible rainstorm one night and we were so cold that I put my gloves on "11.rJ feet to keep them warm when we went out to see a play. I remember that so well. But while I was there I was elected the natiOnal chairman. So it met again in Chicago the following year. This is leading up to my cominq back to Illinois I might say. 
the nebrt: year which met in Chicago. 
Q:  Now what were the years that you were in Montana?  
A:  I  came back here in 1947 I  think it was.  
Q:  So ycu were in Montana from 1941 to 1947?  
A:  Sctnething like that.  So I  was elected the national chairman far  

I think it was most intei:est:i.rq dur~' was the state chainnan of the public health section
' the time I that National Health Nurses Week was celebrated all over the natia ani just recently I found in going through all the pa~ I have picked around here someplace, this paper which I had wr1tten "Know rem: Public Health Nurse." We were on a broadcast from 
I 
I ., 
13
Geneva M. 'Iheis 
Portland, oreg-on down to Helena, Montana ani there were seven stations on this particular thousand-mile broadcast. 
Q: And this was on the radio? 
A: Radio yes. Three of our nurses there in Helena participated. We won first place out of seven. 
Q: First place for your script? You wrote the entire script is that right? 
A: Many of the newspaper articles which I have had were destroyed as rrr:1 scrapbooks were destroyed when I lived in a house where everything molded. '!hey became moldy and I had to bum them which I really felt very badly about. '!hen I returned to Chicago the next year. By this time our secretal:y was taking over I might say there in Helena. 
Q: She was taking over your job? j 
A: Everybody's job, she saw to it the health officer lost his jJ. I resigned and I'11 tell more about that later. I am going to fini$ this Council of Branches. While I was at the Council of Branches !I: met Maude carson, you probabl:y don't remember her. She at that tilne was the director of the Divis~on of Public Health Nursing at the Illinois state Deparbnent of Health and she attended this conferenpe in Chicago. She told me there was an opening for me if I would juat come back to Illinois. I said to her I didn1t feel like I could ' :p:>ssibly do that because Montana had given me the money and I belonged out there to the association and everything. I just couldn1t do that right now because it wouldn't be fair. Well she thought that was connnendable. So they had also given me five extra days and I came down to Jacksonville to visit rrr:1 sister and brother-in-law and family. 'Ihey called me then from the Division of Services for Crippled Children and asked me if I could come over to Springfield. My brother-in-law said they'd take me over and so I went over to Springfield and a woman talked to me. Again I felt like I owed it to Montana that I must return back there. She thought this was what I should do and she thought it was cammend.able that I thought this way. So I returned to Montana. 
Q: Now what about your bachelor's degree, did you not get that during the time you were in Montana? 
A: No, Montana gave me this stipend or scholarship to go back to Minnesota. 
Q: Was this before or after • • • 
A: This wa8 while I lived in Montana. I feel very grateful again, and you know actually for a quarter you are allC'I\illed at the most to take eighteen hours of work and I took twenty-four hours and I got five f-S and two Bs. I did my field work in northern Minnesota which I lovedl. · Oh it was fabulously beautiful up there. It's beautiful in its WflY like Montana is beautiful in. its way. 
' 
f 
.,i 
I 

1 
I I 
I 

1 t 
I 

Geneva M. 'lheis 14 
Q: were you there in the winter? 
A: No, I was there in the spring. 
Q: I think the winters are a little different. 
A: I'm sure your are right because our minister's wife came from there and so I k:ncM something about it. But it1s kind of interesting to have met her very recently having come from up that way too. I worked out of Minnesota and the I.and. of lakes. '!his was my advanced. course which pe.nnitted me to take in supervision and I received a high A in the course. All the rest of them were directors and. I was only a staff nurse or they were supervisors. It; was for supervisors but they had gotten special pennission for me to take it and this paper was, the paper that was published in our national magazine. 
Q: NO\'rl what was this paper about? 
A: The title was "counseling by Correspondence" and this paper actually published. '!he class members themselves voted that it d be published which I felt was pretty nice of them because they all superior as far' as their jobs were concerned. I was only a s nurse and they were all supervisors and directors of their departments, etc. 
Q: Now when you were, this goes back a little bit, when you went to nursing school you also received the highest grades? · 
A: I did I had a 95.8 average. '!hat was one that was destroyed in my moldy scrapbook• 
Q: What your diploma? 
A: Oh no my diploma is over there. 
Q: '!his was your recognition for your high grades? 
A: '!he honor roll, of course today they make greater to-do about it than .they did in our days. But speaking of this period of time that I was there, it was one of the most worrlerful periods I've ever been in Minnesota. OUr instructor, and for the life of me I can1t remember her name, but she was very beautiful and a very worrlerful person. Well evey1::x:x:ly was just great. There was a young girl there who lived with her father who helped me sort of edit my paper before I tumed it in which helped a whole lot. Then I get back here to Illinois and I worked in Van,jalia for awhile. 
Q: So why did you eventually quit your job in Montana? 
A: Well when I went back to Montana the secret.cny was really' taking over everything, dictatirq what everybody should do and then when the time ¥Tived I think it was really six months after I was back that I left 1;bere. She was going to ;ret a higher salary than I was gett~ when J; thought I was a profess1onal person. 
I 
Geneva M. Theis 15 
. 
i 
Q: she was not medically trained? .i I 
I \. A: No, she was not she was just strictly a :politician. She would! run to the :politicians with evecything. The doctor, I felt very, very1 sorry about why she saw to it that he lost his job. So Mary1 the other nurse, who by the way was to replace me, I had trained who was in this interview on the radio with us. one day when she came ba'* she found a note on her desk saying, "Your services are not needed here1" which to me was about as rude and crude a way of advising someone they didn't have a job as I have ever heard in my lifetime. Well Mary left very shortly thereafter too. 
Q: So they had no more medical :people there? 
A: Well somebody finally came. I don•t have the slightest idea who they were but Nell1 she died a few years later and her sister died~ 
Q: Ani who was that? 
i 
! I 
A: The secretacy. But when they get this cruel like writing that note and the health officer. I had the privil~ when I took a 
;' i 
vacation going off to Arizona where nrt nephew l~ved out there visi ing with the Shales, our health officer and his daughter and his wife. I have no idea where they are anymore. 
Q: Now he was the dootor in the public health office. 
A: He was our director in Helena. It all made me feel so badly . really but Mary now is with the state department of health. She has gone back to school and gotten her master's in Montana and I was talking to her the other night. She had forgotten all about this broadcast that we had put on. I said well I found the papers so I know we did it. 
Q: Did you send her a copy? 
A: No, I don't have a copy machine now. 
Q: Well you could go to the libracy. 
A: I go to the bank and they usually do it. If I go to the n~per they charge a fortune. 
Q: I think your library will charge you about five cents or ten cents a page. So you came back to Illinois in 1947. 
A: Yes, in 1947 and went down to Vandalia. I don't remember just hOW" long and then I came over here at carlinville in 1953. I've always been very glad and we covered eight counties here. '!hen during this time since I've been in Illinois I was also given a scholarship. You see at Minnesota you have to spend the last year on the campus1 at least it was the rule in those days. I see they are having a lot of trouble in the sports field, somebody injured somel::lody1 I think on the hockey field. He hit hiln or did something deliberately. It was in the paper last night. 'Ihat made me feel kind of bad because you ~OW" 
I 
t 
.1 
l 1 
I 
Geneva M. 'Iheis 
16L 
Mirmesota was rated as one of the finest schools of public health its day. Of course public health isn•t today what it was then. ! 'Ihey've changeci it a lot as you well know. But anyway after I move¢l over here I was president of the 9th District NUrses while I was here. '!hat's part of the Illinois Nurses Association. I think I •ve showed you this picture of Anne Zilnmennan, who is the executive director or they call her ddministrator, I noticed in I.oyola1s Ste~ Magazine but we know her as otherwise. But she was a g~endof mine out in Montana arrl she was nice enough to send this to me so it was nice to start workirg with her once again. 
Q: An:l she lived here in carlinville? 
A: No, she was here in Illinois, she was executive secreta:ty in this state. She's been in carlinville to visit me. Have you ever been over to calhoun County? 
Q: I don't think so. 
A: Well I 111 tell you someday you'11 have to go over to calhoun County. '!here you can collect all your fossils and everything. 
Q: Where is this? 
A: It's the boot of Illinois with the Mississippi on one side and the 
Illinois on the other side. You have to go by fer:cy or you can goclear down and go across the bridge. It's fascinating, it's beautiful and there I have found many fossils. Well I might say at Minneso~ I wanted to do physical ed in the worst way and the minute they touclp.ed
the stethoscope to my chest they said, "No swilmning, no physical ei for you." I had just started to leam to swim when my ears became 
infected and so everything was wrong. So I chose geology because my 
nephew was a geologist. I wrote to him and he said, "You know it'' not going to be easy. You are going to find it's hard but if you Jp'lowthe layers of the earth," which I don't remember I might say exact+y except when I hear them now. I was read..irq an article the other ~ywhich remin:led me of them but I have some beautiful fossils which; I'm going to show you that came from over there. When I was visiting them last year after I had retired I went out to casper, Wyoming. 
Q: Now who was this? 
A: My nephew. He has three lovely children and one graduates from the University of Wyoming the first day of this month, the oldest 
daughter. '!heir invitations are I think very tmusual and you know they talk about this open pit mining and this strip mining I want to talk about mostly. By the way, while I lived in Butte I was down in 
one of those copper mines please believe you me. Oh it was certainlyinterestin:;J, you think you are never going to get out but you do get out and the water is dripping on your head and so forth you khow. 
'!hose men are brave that go into these mines. Well ~ythey were doing the strip mining out there in casper so I saw this ore lay.inq there !and I said, "Oh can I have some of that?" My nephew turned around and he said, "I just knew you were going to ask me that." jAnd. 
so we came to the peelings then and I did get some beautiful piI want to show you hobbies I think are vitally important for the 
Geneva M. 'lheis 11 
i 
future well being and the well being of any human being because j~t to think of their own profession isn't gocd. You have to have an l all-:t'OU:nded life to my way of thinking. 'lhis for instance I saw qutin Helena when I was out there. '!hey cha:rged twenty-five dollars .for these. '!hose are famous rcx::ks which I have picked up, this one here is where gold comes from. 
Q: Fran that rock? 
A: Well it's not from that particular rock but it's fran the :mine, you know your quartz. 
Q: You did write a paper about hobbies? 
A: I did and I was so intensely interested. in this I told you in hobbies. I won first prize at the state fair one year and second i price the second year. ! 
Q: At the Illinois State Fair? 
A: Yes. Now this paper was published in four different magazines ' which I was real proud of. You can see where Ann Zimmerman, I found the letter of hers the other day. She said she was so proud of rna that she could read that article you know. 
Q: Now what magazines were these published in? 
A: Well they were in Chart, they were in Illinois Federation of Business and Professional women1s Club, but they were in one. from the university of Illinois and there was still another one. I thought I wrote that d.own someplace. 
Q: And the name of your paper was called? 
A: "Hobby Values." 
Q: Do you rem.e:ober what year you wrote this? 
A: I honestly don't remember the year I wrote it because I can't !find the orignal copy for some reason. I can't find either one of thoejeoriginal copies. I don't know how you could even read that but somebody read it because it was typed up tO put in the paper. 
Q: You have here the university . , • 
A: But there was a fourth one too. 
Q: Oh a chart • • • 
A: A chart for the Illinois Nurses Association and the IllinOis Federation of Business and Professional women's Club. But there -was still another one they had it in too. 
Q: But you just wrote this fairly recently, within the last ten years? 
Geneva M. 'lheis 
A: You see this is one of the t:hin;Js I made and this down here. · Atx1 I wired a Christmas tree tog'ether that was positively beautiful. 
took cone upon cone and wired. them tog'ether and did I not send you a picture of that? 
that come off the telephone pole? 
Q:  Yes.  
A:  Atx1 here1s  some of them.  
Q:  Oh that's :beautiful.  
A:  I:b you have the slightest idea what you can do with the .insulators  

Q: No. 
A: Well here is a good example. 
Q: Isn't that nice. Well I didn1t know' they had different sized ones. 
Q: A:  So you just have to be there men they are tearing one down? '!hat's the truth but I think this is particularly lovely.  
Q: A:  NOV/ are these flowers? Yes.  
Q: A:  so you did flcmer arranging? And I had a Christmas one. I  want you to see this particularly  

lovely picture. see how the trees and things mount the window. I 
Q: So .you use natural items to make decorations for the home and 
Christmas decorations. What did you win your prizes for at the Illinois state Fair? 
A: Well there was these several here and there was a little sleigh.. I think I have a picture here someplace. 
Q: What wa.S the catego:ry? 
A: I don't remember, it's on that taq. 
Q: Harle Decorations. 
I 
!I 
I 
Geneva M. 'lheis 19 
A: Oh you might be interested in knc:Ming our ret:axded children wa several prizes at the fair out here in carlinville this year in 
~~m~cy. 1 
Q: And what did they wm? Oh this was for Christmas decorations I see. 
A: And see here was some. I even decorated a maill:x:>x and these are all the many different things I have done. I did teach some of this too. 
Q: At evening class? 
A: It wasn't exactly a class that was set for each Monday or every Tuesday but just when they had ••. this was part of rrrt display used for lessons in the Macoupin ~cyHome Bureau leaders. Well you know when I was president here of the district, of course unfortunately again I had to become ill at the end of my term, before actually the term ended, am I think I sent you the copy of the letter that thev declared May 14th "Geneva M. 'Iheis Day" and I felt very grateful. I thought that was very nice. 
Q: And what year was this then? 
A: If the year isn't on there I can't tell you because I've been sick too many times. In spite of all the illnesses that I have had I ha.ve tried to rise above it. It was 1970 wasn't it? I finally thought of it. 
Q: '!his was in Springfield? 
A: Well you see Springfield is part of the whole 9th District and he happened to be the president of the 9th District. 'Ihen they gave me a beautiful silver tray too besides. 
Q: And this was to honor the work that you had done in your lifetime? 
A: What I had done in this district anyway. 
Q: Now your job here in carlinville was what? 
A: Well it wasn't just carlinville. I worked in the University of Illinois and the state was divided into districts and regions and ;i..t finally became seven regions. When I retired they closed the offipe. A sing'le nurse, secretary offices were closed although there are several of them still going. 
Q: And you worked for the Department of Crippled Cllildren? 
A: No, the Universicy of Illinois Division of Services for Crippled Children. 
Q: I, see so you were employed by the universtiy? 
A: Yes, rrrt retirement and all comes from the University Reti:'re:IIner1~ 
GeneVa M. 'lbeis 20 
Q: And·this was your job for h.c:M many years? 
A: we had clinics held throughout our area. We had eight clinicsi aver in centralia and we used to have a couple in Salem. Mayi:Je it was one in Salem and one in centralia. A:eyway we ended up and took them all oot of Salem :because there was no use of goinq there. We didn't have the proper facilities. You :neE.d really proper facilities and so then we had the new hospital in Centralia so we had eight clinics there. We had two here, there were two in carlinville and two in carrollton. '!hey have taken ooth clinics out of Carlinville too. I don't know honestly heM they have it divided, your guess is just as good as mine at this point. Somebody told me they were dividing it thusly and saneb::xiy else told me it wasn't divided that way so I don't :~mow" h.c:M it's really divided. But aeyway I can remember well when I first came to this division. I wanted to get acquainted with my people, you knCM with my agencies, etc. I would start out working' at seven o'clock in the lt'mning and get h.ame at eleven o1clcx::k. at night. I always remembered this one nurse and one social worker said you are goinq to have yourself in the hospital before you k:ncM it and sure enough I was. 'Ibis has just been a part of my life. 'lbat is very minor when I stop to think about it except your health is very . i.Dp:>rtant and. I worked many a day when I felt like I should be in=: 
but on the other harx1 my work came first. When I retired. they ga me a two hun:lred dollar bon:i, the staff did, pluse twenty-five doll , plus :many ca.:rds I ~ived. · 
Q: so when did you retire? 
A: August 31 last year. 
Q: 1974? 
A: Yes. 
Q: Now for what reason did you retire? 
A: Oh well it was age. sixty-five is your average age but because my birthday fell at the time it did I was able to work another nine lTO!ltl)S. Well sixty-eight was the retirement age. 
Q: Did you want to retire? 
A: Well not exactly except I was getting awfully tired and I was having to take off a day of my vacation after every clinic to rest upin. 
Q: So then since your retirement you have been involved with yourhobbies I assume? 
A: Well mostly resting and the retarded. children. I am int.ensely interested in retarded children. I should have gone up to the meeting in Springfield but I didn't go because it's too hot and I can't get out l::Jecause if I stay out too much, see I was just in the hospital in May again. 
I 
.1 ' 
·.I 
·' 
Geneva M. 'Iheis 
Q: Do you do volunteer work with retarded children? 
A: Right and I am president of the North Macoupin county Association and I love to go down there. 'Ih.e children are so very very wonder.ful. I have a nice scrapbook they 'Fve me. '!he teachers gave me that. · 'lbe children wrote the notes. I JUSt found a valentine yesterday they'd all signed their name too and everything. You know that has~ tremendously too. You krlow about all this, the public school system nCM is responsible for a retarded child if he's at all educable. The ones that we have are too old to go. 'lbey don't belong in institutions either. Besides that we have two excellent teachers down here who teach them. many good things, :rug weavi.rq for instance. '!hey do beautiful :rug work arrl they do ceramics, they make a lot of nioa things. I told you they've won prizes. I didn1t go to the fair because I couldn't get out in the heat to go to the fair but it made me feel real proud that those youngsters sewed suits, they are taughtsewing, they make their own clothes. I think that's pretty remarkable and they've learned how to cook. Each one takes their tum to set the table. 
Q: Now are these things during school hours that they are 1 ? 
A: Yes, well they also leam other things like their letters and their numbers and such as that, 'What they are capable of learning. 
Q: It's in the public school builclin:j? 
A: No it's in our own school building. We pay for it ourselves. Public schools have certain responsibility by law for some children so we lost a lot of our children. 
Q: '!hen these are the ones not qualified to go to public school? 
A: ~!bat's right. But someday they are going to be out of public school too. Some of those parents are still active in ours and some children are in private institutions, maybe one or two. We have sc:nne that had training up at McFarland Zone Center. I have great respectfor McFarland Zone center, I think those nurses up there are fabulous really because I have been up there many times to visit them. When our OWn children at Crippled Cllildrens had to have some special · trea'bnent they would help them if they weren't eligible for school 1and they weren't eligible for down here yet. But I've been down to ! McFarland Zone Center and I've been up and down here to Warren G. · Murray, both of them. By the way I don't remember Whether I ever finishe:i about the changes we have had. we ate there. It seems tc) me we were all so busy anyway but it's sure been changed since then. still belong to the Council of Agencies which meets Friday. 
I want to show you this one rock. I've turned this around so I make sure you can see it. 
Q: Isn't that pretty. 
A: look at that eye in there. 
22
Geneva M. 'Iheis 
Q: Do you k:rlc:M what those layers are? 
A: I do nat. 
Q: I took geology myself and I can't tell you either. 
A: 'Ihese are my angels. My former director of the Visiting NUrse staff.was one of my dearest friends ani she had sent those to me. '!his is sanething that came from the crippled children. IJhey helpmake them. see the gourd. Ani I'11 have to sh.ow' you Royal Dllton too. It's aver here. That's the original nurse and it's nothing less
1 . 
than Royal Dllton. 
Q: Oh, waN. She was the first nurse? 
A: She was the first dnmken nurse. They were always drunk. That was really the tJ::uth so the history says. I wasn't there so I reallycouldn't tell you. I have collected a fa-~ antiques. Here are pictures of Montana that my brother-in-law colored for me and SOlt\ellC'XJY else told me they'd even have them framed for me if I got the fra:lt\EtS 
'!his is handmade ani so is this. I met this lady, she had a giftthere and lOW' and behold she had lived in Montana while I was liv' out there and I didn't even know her. '!his is one of the things
she made. 
l . 
Q: '!bat's ceramic? 
A: Ani this is one of the lovely things that are priceless today lin gift shops. They are han:lmade from Germany, they are hand car.ved. ' look here at these little tiny bi:t'ds. 
Q: Oh my gosh, it's no bigger than my fingernail. 
A: I k:rlc:M it. 	Isn't that darli.rq? 
Q: NOW' who made these? Where did you get these tiny little things? 
A: At that gift shop over 'When she had it. I.ook at that. That goeswith it. 
Q: Oh isn't that lovely? That is very, very pretty. 
I 
A: This is all handcarved too. That teapot over there was actually
i 	made in 1860. That's genuine pewter. I.ook at the copper bottom and 
tin lining.

I 
l 	Q: Isn't that pretty. Now where did you get that? 
t 	A: That waS my oothers and that old rose bowl over there too, that's 
pressed glass. ·

I 
t 
I 
End of Side '.lWo, Ta:pe one 
j 
J 
I 
_L.__
·····--·-·" 
Geneva M. 'Iheis 23' 
I 
Q: We were talking about your job when you were living in Montanal 
A: I was just telling about my cute little apartment I had in Montana. '!hey talk about the liberation of the nuns today but I would say we started. way back in those years for the very good reason . • . 'Ih.e apartment, by the way, had one nice big room plus the kitchen plus a screened in porch all across which was most delightful. It was right on the mountain side of the mountain that went down to last Chance Gulch, the main street of Helena. It was called last Chance Gulch because they mined. gold in that gulch ani when I saw it this last fall, it almost made me sick. '!here was all this urban rebuilding, rehabilitation and I didn't know whether I knew Helena or 
didn't know Helena really. Except the folks where I visit.Ed were the Am:>ses again. Interesting enough I did meet a couple of women that 
took me to the women's club one day. '!he president came up to me 
afterwards and she says, "Didn't you use to go to the Presbyterian church?" I said, ''Well yes I did, I used to belong there ani all of us were just real good friends. We went on picnics ani thingstogether." She said, "I just ~tyou did. I recognized you." ;She was so very gracious ani this ~s where this friend of mine who had been my supervisor when I was a student nurse lived. so we had a gatime together. so arrjWay the vice president came up to me pretty n and she says, "Didn't you used. to go to the Presbyterian church?" I don't know how they all happened. to be Presbyterians by the way, i seems funny doesn't it? But arrjWB.Y I said, "Yes I did." She saysJ "I just thought so." I never missed when I could go because the · minister, every word he said was . . . he had a five-minute sennon with the children that was tremen:lous and I don't know, you'd getalmost as much out of that five-minute sennon as you can out of some ministers if they talked two hours. The inspiration was so great. 
Q: Now were you in the historical scx::iety out there? 
A: Yes I belonged to the historical society and I still belong anc1. this is why I still get the magazine. It seems rather strange that I would belong to a historical society out there ani not here. But · somehow or rather I felt a part of it. 
As I was telling you my landlord and landlady where I had this cute 
apartment had this beautiful cherry orchard up on the motmtainside on Blackhead lake. I came horne with twenty quarts of Royal Annes and bing cherries, no less, canned them right there on the old wash board, stayed. up tmtil 3:30 in the morning. 
Q: Yes, those are delicious. 
A: Yes, both fresh and othexwise. But you met so many people who were so hospitable. Maybe it's so very very different and it was sort of fun going back there and renewing and learning to know these people over again. But I get Chrisbnas cards from them once in awhile. Not once in awhile but most every Christmas but people are cutting down on their Christmas cards nCM. 
Q: Did you get to spend some time out there? 
Geneva M. '1heis 24 i 
! 	I 
' 
A: At this lake? No, because they were all gone. All of them wet;e dead. I: didn't even get up to Blac:kbead I.ake but did get to go ~ to Butte. As I: told you earlier, if you had ever been to Butte yoU would never krl.ow it today. Because I just couldn't hardly believe! my o;.m eyes that Butte would be like this at all. Of course this is pne reason when I lived in Butte I started pick.in:J up little pieces of copper, etc. I have a copper coffee service and I have a beautiful copper pitcher and. a couple of copper things that came from back 
·there. 	I don't know what happened to this coffee pot here. rrhere• is a piece off the top of it. Isn't that a beautiful piece? If I COlJ.ld find that pitcher you would think it is still more beautiful. 
Q: A copper coffe pot? 
A: Yes, and. here's the teakettle. I have a pitcher too. 
Q: Isn't that lovely? A tea kettle. 
A: 'lb.is again is some more. 
Q: Now what is that one called? 
A: I do have the other part of it. Oh and this here is hand wrou¢lt. 
Q: Now did you just come upon these rcx:ks? Who would ever krl.ow from seeinJ the outside of this? 
A: I k:now it. I actually have some crystal that came from Mexico and antimony. 
Q: Now that came from Mexico? 
A: Yes, this came from Mexico. '!hat's actually antimony. 'Ibis is genuine crystal of one of the women 'Whose husband worked in the mine. He was a foreman of the mine, my nephew' was his general manager. We went up on top of the mountain that as I told you was inaccessible accept by a four-geared jeep. The town is completely isolated today and it's up a mountainside, a road with the mountain on one side and a carty<?n on the other no less. This church at that time, it's been quite a few years ago nc:M, still had the three hun::ired year old paint.ir.g on the ceiling. This crystal, she went over to the ·piano, I don't admire anyt:hi.ng down there because they'll give it to you right away, ani she went over and picked this piece up. 
Q: 'nlat is just lovely. I've never seen any crystal in a natural state. 
' 
' 	A: Believe it OJ: not this came right; here from Illinois. 
I • 	i
f 
! i Q: What is that, do you knc:M? 

A: ~t's a branch, that's a fossil from a tree. 
Q: Yep . have quite a rock collection, very nice.
' 
GeneVa M. 'lheis 25 i 
l 
A: '!here is sane :more of it over here and this here is a piece of! wood that looks just like a greyhound which I polished after I foutrl it. I scrubbed. it, it was full of salt. i 
Q: Is that driftwood from the sea? 
A: Yes, but too during the years I lived in Peoria before I ever went out to Montana, I did become a worthy matron in the Eastern star. I only started as a corrluctress to start out with because usually they start in a whole line and I didn't. 
Q: This was when you were living in Peoria? 
A: Yes, '11!f mother and five daughters belonged to our elected chapter there and I still belong. I •ve never taken rrr:1 membership out from there. So it was really nice when I went out to Montana I used to go to the chapters and visit out there. Of course you had to know' hc1iAr in o:t'der to get in. 
Q: NCM what does the job of worthy matron entail? 
A: well it entails the general management of the whole chapter just like they would be a supervisor of anyth:i.nq. We were invited out .to serve many places in other chapters too. If they had frierrl' s nigl).ts or something' like that you went to fill in a station someplace. 
Q: Arrl this was while you had a full-time job as visiting nurse? 
A: Yes, besides I was in the Nurses Asscx::iation and president of the district too at that time. So I was kept on rrr:1 toes I might say. 
Q: One t.h.ing' I wondered about, one of these articles referred to cadet nurses out in Montana. 
A: Oh that was sanething this cadet nurse. I must not forget that because I really felt rather hurt about it. '!hey had written a history of Montana nursing and it said there was only a secretary. I spent hours and days working on that job besides my own job you know. I ~the state chairman of the cadet Nurses CO:rps. I had to go ard we had to encourage young nurses to go into nursing. This was during the Second World War. '!hat's the one my nephew was in. We had to encourage yotll"g' girls to go into nursing and of course they provided. them with these beautiful uniforms remember. Of course I think scmv:a of them only went in because of the uniforms but others we know' were very devoted nurses. HeM I became so well acquainted with the nurses out there in I.e.wistcmn is because of the cadet Nurse CO:t:pS. 'lhey were so glad to think that I would help so much with that. 
Q: 'Iha.t was encouraging nurses to serve in the army? 
A: No, it was to go into nursing period. Just to go into nursing of course eventually the war was over though before they ever got thra.lgh training. Generally speaking at that time they were all diploma school nurses. '!he Diploma Schools of Nursing, I'd better put it . right. I was invited to speak to various clubs and all and I just l 
GeneVa M. 'lb.eis 26, 
~to oaoe across that material. When I was ta1k.irg to Mal:y I sa1d, "I've ccme across all these thin:Js on all the work I did out· there in Montana. " I said, "I suppose it's because I wasn't a Montanan." well she said, ''Why if I have records why didn•t somebodyelse have records?" I think this is a little odd really. It was a lot of·fun arxi there were a lot of nice young girls who did go into nursing. Another thing I think I would like to talk about, I have been very extrememly active in the Business and Professional women1s Club. I think I was only in this town, about six months in carlinville, When I was elected president of the club at the tilne. • 'lhe membership had gone down to thirty and we had it up to sixty some before the en.:l of the year. I served two tenns as president and then I have been on several state oormnittees which I enjoyed. One was the Howal:d Fellc:MShip Fund and this committee used to meet and these girls, there were certain universities in this country that we would pay or give scholarships too. But they had to pass pretty rigid tests you knt:M we observed them, etc. I wouldn't give anything for that golden opportunity for doing that job really and truly. It was reallyworxierful. 
Q: Now are you still a member of the club? 
A: Yes, I still belorq to the club. I'm courtesy chainnan naN, i~ anybody is sick I have to serx:l cards or when anybody in the familydies I have to see to the flowers. I still belong after all these years. I think I've done pretty well. I also served as secretary of the club one time. 
Q: Now what about any other clubs? 
A: Then I was president of the American Association of Universitywomen for two tenns but I donIt belong to this anymore. I didn't ~el like I was getting enough out of it. 
Q: Did they have an active club here? 
A: They have an active club but a lot of the members that are lN3l\1bers now were not when I was a member. Have you ever been over to the House of SUnshine? Many years back when I was doing visiting nursing
I took care of this old bachelor, there were two old bachelors in this family and. a sister in this beautiful old antique hane. What is the name of the street there that goes out to the Heights? Pacific I think it was. 
Q: Here in Carlinville? 
A: No, in Peoria and for some reason if I didn't hawen, to have a 
full day's work I'd go up and give his bath in the place of the nurse that wc;>rked in that area if she had so much to do. I took care of hiln rather often ani you know he gave me the sunshine Magazine anl:l all the other ones who hel~. Well that's the first I had ever heard about the SUnshine Magazme. So lo and behold when I moved back here to 
IllinOIS I had this area and I met up with this House of 5unshine again. But n.ot~ it's a beautiful big park and a beautiful building ~ 
i 
I 
I 
i 
l 
1 
i
' 
r " 
27
Geneva M. 'lbeis 
they have lovely gifts plus the magazine and lots of books and everyth.i:n:J. 
Q: Ani it is in Peoria? 
A: No, this is in Litchfield. See the man lived in Peoria. I was way back there when I first had it and I never even kneW of carlinville or Litchfield then in thOse days. But it was so strancge then when I moved down here to Vandalia Why I'd have to carne through Litchfield to qet over to calhoun County. I was just over there a week Or. two ago. so anyway what brought this up was I knew this woman who was the daughter of one of the owners. Of course I guess she's one Il.OW herself. She belorged to the AAUW and she says she doesn't belong anymore and there's several who don't. '!he doctor told me I had to stop someplace. 
Q: I have this article here that talks about a cacrmemorative stamp? 
A: Yes, this was While I was district chairman and it's ha:rd for any of us to believe. that as citizens of the united states we paid fou.:tr cents for mail. 
Q: I see that, four cents in 1962. 
A: So that1s when I was president so Il.OW you know. '!his stamp YOll know like they have for the other faroous people they've had COl!Jnlel.l'Prative stamps. Well for the retarded child they had a COl!Jnlel.l'Prative stamp. I don't know whether you saw it. I have several here that I have collected. myself the first day. I don't have too many. Oh and I've been to Silver Bell, Arizona 'Which was the commem::>rative stamp of that year. '!his is where we ate When we were out to casper one ti:rne. see you have to send for these. I have two of these and here's another one of Silver Bell and. this is hqpe, this is the crippled child you see. 
Q: NCM what is this one they were talking about? 
A: That is strictly for nursing. 
Q: And you were the recipient of this? 
A: No, I bought the first hundred. See I bought the first hundred and Mr. Reeves who was the hospital administrator but he actually belonged to this association. I'm the only one nO'ili7 who belon.g'S to our Nurses Association here in carlinville. But I wanted to show you that one of the retarded child now because I think it's exceptionallybeautiful. 
Q: cam.nsrorative stamp for the retarded children. How did you get it put into a keycase? · 
A: Oh, sanebo:iy had that made. 
Q: So you use it as your key ring. I wo:rx:lere:i do you feel that you've ever had any special problems because you were a woman? 
Geneva M. 'lheis 	2& 
A: No, I guess the only time that I spoke out was the time I w.t.'O't$ that letter to the western magazine. I didn't think that they Wtere all the 'Wtlt\ei1 who had .done so much. I d.al•t think it was because I was th.inld.nq of, ah, you k:now, freedom of women's activities. I do think that women should be paid equal pay for their jobs if they are qualified I mean. I don't know that they all qualify. I think that sane are out there c:cying that don1t. NCM I don't k:r1c:lw' how you feel about. this. 
Q: What about 	the women's ll'OVement? 
A: Of course BPW is quite erratic about this they are strong. 
Q: For wanen•s rights? ' .
i A: Right, they are real strorg abalt it. I think wanen should have ~ rights, absolutely. 
Q: Are you for the Equal Rights Amen:lment? 
! 
A: Well I da1't knOW' whether it's goirg to help wa:uen or not. After you read it you won:ler. There are certain conditions that certainlymight alter it slightly but I think they should have equal rights. 
Q: :But you don't like the specific 11.1Crding" of the~as it· is? 
A: I think. so. 
Q: What do you think should be changed? 
A: I haven't really thought. I guess I've gone my own way and I've tried to VJOrk and do my job the best that I knew how like you are trying to do and to help the crippled child so he could become rehabilitated so that he could meet his best potential. It always · seemed st.ran;Je to have male nurses but they came in pretty handysanetimes. Used to have one when I was a student nurse, no he was an orderly and he was the bossiest thing when I was a student nurse bUt we all liked him anyway. 
Q: Did you have very many males in your classes? 
A: No 'We didn't have any in our classes. I think they are havingthem now. 
Q: What do you thirg about that? 
A: well I da'l't think male nurses should take care of female patients. 
l ' 	Q: What about male doctors taking care of female patients? · 
I 
! 
; 	A: Well that's different they are takir:g care of evecything and 
everybody. NCM I don't know that it's different, but it is to me. 

'[ 
Geneva M. 'lheis 
Q: If you had been a male do you think you would have chosen ~ as your field? 
A: I doubt it. I don1t :k:rlow". I might have. I suppose it would have been depend.e:nt on my m:::>tive and desires in life. 
Q: What do you think about female doctors? 
A: W~l frankly I •ve never been too stro113' for female doctors. think they are well qualified. I don't know. I think they are good e:nough maybe and. yet I just have a feelin;;J that I wouldn't want a female. I '11 have to admit that a female doctor bad to take over 'When my own doctor went on vacation a few years back. 
Q: Do you have a female doctor here in carlinville? 
A: Yes, right in the clinic. She honestly takes care of your OB's mostly. 
Q:  She is an OB?  
A:  Obstetrician, yes.  
Q:  She is a specialist?  
A:  Predominantly I would say.  Dr. Ridgely doesn't do any babies  

anymore. Ma.ybe one of the other doctors does, I don't k:now. 
Q: Is she a you:nq woman? 
A: I don't know hOYT old she would be. You knOW' she can't be too ; young to get through medical school when you think of all the y~that they have to go to medical school. Of course this could be q:ueof nursin;;J too except that nurses can get in at I don•t knOW' what ~ge. It used to be eighteen 'When I was a student but I think they can getin your:ger roN. 
Q: Do you feel that you had a high achievement drive for a female? Do YQU think higher maybe than sane? 
A: I think I have, really, because I wouldn't have been doinq so l'limY things. I was ove:rwhelmed doill3' so many tb.i:rJ;s that the doctor finally bad to tell me that I had to give up some of them, that's all there was to it. 
Q: And tha.t•s often said to be a male characteristic? 
A: Yes. 
Q: I krl<:M because I feel that I'm that way too. 
A: But really if I wasn1t doill3' somethill3' I 1d be lost I think. don't think it's for my awn gain. I can honestly say it isn't my awn gain it's just that I had that drive to keep goill3' and to do sametiting for sanebocly. I knCM I've had some of my frienis tell me that the~'ve 
GeneVa· M. 'Iheis 30, 
known no one that has given of themselves mre than I have and tha:t;::. 
makes you feel kind of good. I'm not bragging at all but in Irrf ! 
retirement letters there were several people 'Who wrote and told me. 
If I could fin:l same letters I had out here I was going to shaw you 
about Dr. List that he had written to me tha.nking me for same of the 
things that I had made for him. 
Q: Who was Dr. List? 
A: He is our director. I say our director, he was Irrf director. Well he still is because I'm still in the division indirectly. He alwayswrites SUC'h· beautiful letters. He wrote and told me that I not only was good in one area but I was outst.a:ndi.ng in another, you krla'.o1 I th.ought of other t:llinJs too. I just wasn't in one na.rrcw vaCU\ml.. I hope I. never live to see one :na:rroY1 vaCU\ml.. 
Q: It doesn't sound like it. 
i 
A: Because you see church and eve:rythi:n.g. I was sort of out of tljle church until lately and once I got into this over here and the : minister and his wife I just drop in and they drop over here. Evel!l the minister came over and defrosted my icebox. Both of t:hem came together. 
Q: Do you think your life may have been different if you had gottenmarried? 
A: Well I was in love and lost but you know' I've never been sony really because I don't think I could have done all the things I've been doing. I.st's :PUt it that way. I couldn't possibly have carr~ed on. I don't think a husbarrl would listen to it. He would have to ~ an awfully good husbarrl and an unusual husband. I mean unless we were world.ng let1s say together like Janine and Merlin are working i together. That's sort of different but I think a hus'.ban:i would ha'\fe to be awfully good, an unusual husband to put up with all the l1Ul1'lel10US things. I was gone day and night. 
Q: What about children? 
A: Well I loved children and that1S why I think I wanted to adopt those two children you knc:M. I don1t think, should I say, I ever had the desire because I've never been narried. 
Q: 'l.'hc.\.1gh I mean about your job. 
A: Oh well I've worked with children always. I've always 1o110rked with children. 
Q: But if you had had children of your own you probably would not have been doing that? · 
t· ' 
A: You're right I wouldn't have had the time. Unless the chil~ 
I ; 
could be i.nvolved as I say like Janine, they're involved as Im.1.Ch. asj she and Merlin are. 
1 
l I 
I 

I 
I 
' 

Geneva M. 'Dleis 
Q: NOW' who are these people? 
. 

' ' 
) 
~ . 
I 
I 

I 

I 
A: 'lhat1s our Methodist :minister ani his wife ani family. Because the children are just as involved as they are. So that's sort of a different picture. It presents a different picture to me. Because that's a family affair so to speak. For instance the other day he had a funeral and he had a wedding all in one afternoon and he had just came back from Michigan, if you please, and had to get cleaned up and make the visitation to the funeral hane to talk to the wife and family and then there was a wedding practice afterwards. well my, it would have to be a family unification. I don't know how he does it. As I told you our home was always fillecl and mine was too until I got so CJ::'OWded and I don't have nx:m to put them. I always had company and I was always going someplace. 
I d.o want you to get over to calhoun County sanetime. '!here are a couple of good. places to eat over there too. 
Q: I wanted to ask one i:hinq about the ctJ.ristmas tree lady? 
A: Oh the Christ:rnas tree lady. Someplace around here I have, I told you, I sent you a copy but it's a pretty poor one but I think you can tell on there the dates. Great Falls Tribune had this written up and this last Christmas When they were turiiiiiijtl:le lights on they said, this was the twentieth year and I said to myself that isn't true because it's been fifty-four years ycu know'. Alma Higgins was rather eccentric, she was a brilliant woman, she was the national chaiman of the Garden Club am she was the state chainna.n of the Garden Club. She had a home that was nine thousand feet up in the lll0lll1tains that was just beautiful. I took her up there one time and I '11 tell you I came hane with wrecked tires. I might tell you because here was this narrow rough road that hadn1t been on for quite some time but the Vliew from there showed Trident 'I'Nhich is the begi.mi.ng of the dirty l Missouri. 'lhe Missouri is in Montana you know'. The base of the : lll0lll1tains is out there but that is the Missouri. so you see I've $d. sane interesting experiences. Arrjway Trident means three and I cari't recall the three rivera but they were clear as bells until they j oi.ned up with the Missouri and then it was mud. Well anyway her idea was havit:lg a glowing Chris'bnas tree on the White House lawn and the first Christmas tree was from Eureka, Montana if you could read that and that was fifty-four years ago, in 1924. 
Q: And that's when the first Christmas tree was put on the White House lawn? 
A:  An:i she was  called the Christmas tree lady of the nation.  
Q:  Her name was?  
A:  Alma Higgins.  She lived in Butte, she had a  roam in :euttl:! at tlb.e  

same hotel I did. That's how I met her. But she was fascinating mpdI only wish you could have seen her home up there in that lll0lll1tain because there was just nothing down bela>~ except that wild road and there off in that expanse of space was all the three rivers cauing jtogether. 
' 
' 
t 
I 

I 

I ' 
i 
Geneva M. 'lheis 
32 
Q: In the big sky countJ:y'? 
A: Yes, it was the big sky country. '!his was absolutely the tru.th am the rcdeos out there are sanething different than they are here too I might tell you. '!hey are quite different. They are really rodeos. 'lhen when I lived in Lewistown I had a garden. I lived of course in tcMn but I met this little girl in one of my rural schools whose name was Billie Ann ani my nickname having been Billie we sort of became fast frierrls. '!hey had this great big ranchhouse, ani Billie Ann Baker and I used to go out there all the time. Imyway they gave me all this space to make a garden ani I was canni:rg peas an:l I made up vegetables just like we have in soop you know'. canned thell in an old wash boiler l.U'ltil three or four o 'clcx::k in the rooming no lass on a wood stove ard had to stoke it all the time. And if that wasn't a chore. But one nice thing, Bennie, everybody's name was a man's name, even the wife Bennie, arrl she picked sane of the things arrl canned them for me but I just had a fab.llcus garden out there arrl I used to drive out there five miles. '!hen I'll have to tell you about this one other incident. I came back to visit the weekerrl with the director of nursing of the Montana State Deparbnent of Health, Florence Whipple. I brought Bennie ard the three little ones with me an::l they were going to visit some of their relatives there. so we got ready to go back ard here we got caught in this terrible blizzard ani you have never been in a blizzard like one out in Montana. You couldn't see a few inches ahead of you hardly. We got home an:l it was 
3:30 in the mrni.rq I might tell you ani we had to go through Wolf Creek canyon. It's a beautiful canyon. 'then we had to go around the Rocky Mountains which was a road like this. I still don't knCM heM we got home. I tell you it was only the grace of God. because we couldn't see a thin:J the Sl1CM was falling so thick ani so fast. Ycu just q:>U].dn't keep the wWshi.eld wiped off enough ani there wasn't anybody, if you met anybody, it was just too bad on that mountain. IJ.lckily fate was with us but I really have been in some stonns. Anot:har tilae we were out at Augusta which is just fifty miles from the beautiful Rockies by the way. At the school the door opened and the teacher ccW.d sit there at her desk arrl see the Rockies. We started out ard -we had got to Wolfcreek canyon arrl up on the hill tcMards Augusta there was a wild stonn. I would have gone ahead because I da.reQ. anyt:hirq in those days. '!he doctor wouldn't have anything to do with it and we just turned arourrl and came back. '!he thing that worried me was we had made all these plans and evecything and there was no way to notify anybody. 
Q: Samds like the old pioneer days? 
A: Well it was I'll tell you, that day was a pioneer day but there just Wlll8n' t aeyway to notify. Another interest.in;J thing out there was the teachex:e; stayed right at the school. Now you are going to ask 'Why or hoW', but· they had a lean-to so to speak, an extra roam built on. Sane of them looked just like a shanty is just what they amounted to. '!hat's what they looked like to me ani there would be a bed arrl other equipnent arx:l a place to cook. You see there were times when those children .had to stay in school a couple of days because of those snowstorms. So it was a good thing to have those facilities you know. 'Ihat's where the teachers lived. 
Ge:r.le.Va M. 'lhei.s 	33 
Q: An:i they lived there all the time? 
A: 'lhat's right unless they wanted to go home on the wee:k.e'rrl or somethinq but sane of them had to go too far. That was pioneeri.nq ·I might say an:l I actually saw it. 
Q: I want you 	to tell me about Who's Who. Your connection with it. 
A: Well I have been in and there's one of the books right there. I don•t ~. 'lhey wrote to me an:l asked me. I never asked to. be and. I feel kirrl of· flattered and of course there was something about a mem'be:rsh.ip but I don't knc:M that that bicgraphy is a membership. l!hey've never asked me for any information per se. 
Q: NCM which ones were you mentioned. in? 
A: I was in the International, I was in the wanens Who's Who out of Liverpool an:l that WCtnens Who's Who of American Wallen and Who's Who of 
the Midwest. 
Q: NOW' you were in three different ones? I see, International and 
wanens America an:l Midwest? Now that's quite an honor I would think? Did they send you this book then too. 
A: Yes, but you had to pay for it. 
Q: But you got your little diploma or whatever it is? 
A: see there was samet:hing that they had asked me as an advisory 
member but I've never advised them about. anyth..i.ng-. 
Q: Maybe tha~'s what you get just for getti.nq your name in there?· 
A: I don •t know, I've never got that before. 
Q: I wanted to ask you about this portrait here? Was this painted of you? 
A: 'Iha.t is actually an etching and I zeroxed that off. 
Q: When did you have that done? 
t 	A: I don't know just how many years ago I had that done. But you see my hair arrl everyt:hing is so different today that I just don't
I 
remember.
l 
I 
l End of Side One, Tape Two I