Holliday, Parley - Interview and Memoir

              University of Illinois at Springfield 
Norris L Brookens Library 
Archives/Special Collections 

Parley Holliday Memoir 
H724. Holliday, Parley b. 1934 Interview and memoir  1 tape, 43 mins., 16 pp. 
Holliday, a Mormon, discusses his experiences as project manager of Nauvoo Restoration, Inc: restoration plans for the town of Nauvoo, archaeological work, the work of Mormon missionaries, and future plans for the community.  
Interview by Richard S. Welchans, 1974 OPEN See collateral file: interviewer's notes, photograph of Holliday, and photocopied newspaper articles 
Archives/Special Collections LIB 144 
University of Illinois at Springfield 
One University Plaza, MS BRK 140 
Springfield IL 62703-5407 

© 1974, University of Illinois Board of Trustees 
PREFACE 
This manuscript is the product of a tape-recorded interview conducted by Richard S. Welchans for the Oral History Office on October 29, 1974, at Nauvoo, Illinois. Marjorie R. Welchans transcribed the tapes and RichardS. Welchans edited the transcript. Parley Holliday reviewed the transcript. 
Parley Holliday was born in Sarah, Mississippi in 1934. He graduated from Brigham Young University in 1957 with a degree in civil engineering and spent the next two years on his mission for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. He was employed for several years in farming and architectural engineering before applying for an architectural engineering position with his church. 
In January, 1971, he became project manager for the Nauvoo Restoration, Inc. project in Nauvoo, a community founded by the Mormons in the northwestern part of Illinois. In this memoir, Mr. Holliday discusses plans for the restoration of Nauvoo and the work of Mormon missionaries there. 
Readers of this oral history memoir should bear in mind that it is a transcript of the spoken word, and that the interviewer, narrator and editor sought to preserve the informal, conversational style that is inherent in such historical sources. Sangamon State University is not responsible for the factual accuracy of the memoir, nor for views expressed therein; these are for the reader to judge. 
The manuscript may be read, quoted and cited freely. It may not be reproduced in whole or in part by any means, electronic or mechanical, without permission in writing from the Oral History Office, Sangamon State University, Springfield, Illinois, 62708. 
Parley Hol1.-Lday, October 29, 1974, Nauvoo, Illinois . Richard S. Welchans, Interviewer. 
Q. Why don't we just start out with where you were born and when? 
A. I'm a native of Mississippi, born in 1934 in Mississippi. 
Q. What town? 
A. A town called Sarah. 
Q. Sarah? 
A. S-a-r-a-h. Sarah. A little farm community is all. 
Q. Did you live on a farm or did you live in town? 
A. We lived on a farm. 
Q. So your father was a fa.rrrer, I would say. Okay. How long did you 
live there? 

A. I lived there practically all of rey life before corning to Nauvoo. 
I spent, oh, five years away from there. I spent three years out at the 
Brigpam Yorng University, and then two years on a mission in California. 

Q. When did you go to Brigpam Young? 
A. I graduated in 1957. 
Q. What was your major? 
A. Civil engineering. 
Q. And right af'ter you graduated, you went on your mission? 
A. After I graduated, I went on rey mission. 
Q. 'Ihat was for two years? 
A., From 1957 to 1959, June of 1957 to June of 1959. I was in northern California. 
Q. When you were in college, everybody thinks about what they plan to do in the future, did you have any plans? Did you want to get into govern­trent work or did you want to get in a private firm? 
A. Oh, I was majoring in civil engineering and I had in mind that I'd go to work for some engineering firm, some construction company as their engineering, some architectural or engineering firm. That's what I had in mind, yes. 
Q. So you had a lot of exposure to architecture, then? 
A. Oh yes. 
Q. Did that include history of architecture, too? 
A. No, see rey major was civil engineering, and as such you don't really get involved in architecture. After rey mission, I went home. I farmed some and then I worked full-time for an architectural engineering f:Lrm down in the South, and I was their engineer, their outside man. I usually did their site plan for them, and then I did the inspection work and the liaison work between the owner and the architect and the construction company. 
Q. About what times did you do that, do you recall? 
A. Years? 
Q. Yes. Vaguely what years? 
A. Oh, 1965 to 1970, somewhere in there. 
Q. And you were a farmer from the time you finished your mission until then? 
A. Yes, as a matter of fact I farmed then. I hired the help and I'd just simply work in the evening:;; and on the weekends. 
Q. Did you Dwn your own farm, or did you work for your father? 
A. Well, I rented most of the farming that I did. I actually owned 124 acres and I farmed about 700. So I rented ITDst of the land that I worked. I was connected with farming all those years. Matter of fact, I sold one of rey tractors just a ITDnth ago. 
Q. Do you still own your farm? 
A. Well, no, I own 24 acres in Mississippi. 
Q. Was this anywhere near by your father's farm? 
A. Yes. 
Q. It was by Sarah, then? 
A. Yes. 
Q. How did you happen to get involved with Nauvoo Restoration? 
A. Well, I was in--in 1970, I took a to Salt Lake with nw family on a vacation and we went through Salt Lake City and we felt like we needed to rove from South. I went to the Church Building Departrent in Lake inquiring if they had openings people such as nwself, and I was taken to the head of the Department, and he infor!lEd me that there were about twelve or thirteen ren the United States did the church what I had been doing for the architectural engineering firm. He said they seerred to be there permanent. 11We don't look for an opening. u He said, "You migpt an application, you never know what happens. You migpt take an application and fill it out, at least we' ll have it on file. Now you can go overseas , you can tororrow. If you can sorewhere besides the United States." 
Now this was in August, and we completed our vacation and returned bore with application I had. The day or two days after Christmas, I be­lieve the 27th of Decerrber of that 1970, nw wife silid to me one evening, "Why don't you fill that thing out and send in and see what happens." I sat down and filled the thing out and sent it in, on the 31st, which was New Year's Eve, I was headed to the door going for the evenings events with nw wife and the phone rang and was Dr. Kirrball. 
told re who was and he said, nHow would you like to go to work for Nauvoo Restoration?" And I said, "I don't know what you mean. I don't know what Nauvoo Restoration . 11 And he said, ''Well you've heard of Nauvoo. 11 And I said, ''Why sure." And he said, "Well, we're restoring; the church is furnishing money, and we're restoring Nauvoo. How would you like to go to work for Nauvoo Restoration?" I said, ''Well, I'm not really sure I know what we're doing." And he said, "How would you like to core for an interview on the 9th of January?" And I said, "Sure. I haven't been to Nauvoo, anyway. I'll be happy to come there. 11 He said, "I'm gonna be there on the 9th from Salt Lake." So we CarrE on the 9th of January, an interview, and then we made our decision that we would come, so we came in March of 1971. 
Q. What did Dr. Kirrball explain to you would be your function in Nauvoo? 
A. Well, he a project manager, as was called then, J. R-'lvsten was here, and Mr. Ravsten, mder Dr. Kimball's direction, had more or less gotten this project off the ground. 'd been here about seven years and he' d had a couple minor heart attacks, and they wanted rre to take his place to direct the affairs of the project under Dr. Kirrball. So I came with the idea that I would have the physical, the maintenance, the con­struction, the correlating of architecture, and archaeological diggings, the working of the historians' reports and all the reconstruction we do plus the maintenance the grounds buildings and the farm, plus work of the guide service. So I can:e here with that mderstanding I would take his when he left, and this is what happened. 
Q. Had you ever had any interest in history before this? 
A. Not particularly. I studied church history in college. I don't knON why, particularly, but I did. 
4 
Q. Well, of course you would know what Nauvoo was, then, but you wouldn't have had any background on the buildings and the physical aspect of it. You had to do a lot of crash studying, then on the subject? 
A. Oh yes. All my training as an engineer and as working with construc­tion people. Of course I knew plans and buildings and how things were to be done, but as far as building a building 1840, I had to more or less learn. We had our architectural force rigpt here, and we had a construc­tion crew going and working and I just simply learned from them. The plans were drawn; it was just simply getting the construction people to do them like the architect had drawn them. So our architects were really schooled, I just kind of worked into the thing. 
Q. So then you have a lot of assistance in what you do here from pro­
fessional people? 

A. Oh yes. And I more or less correlate them and make sure we don't 
get the cart before the horse, and the project will go. 

Q. Do you know of any particular plan as to what eventually will all be built up here? Is there a rraster plan in other words? 
A. Rick, there is a master plan, but it isn't that we're going to do it just like this plan was drawn five years ago. There is a general layout and a general master plan, this is correct, and we move steadily in that direction. But where we build a motel on this hill or over on the other hill first, we just kind of weigp that situation as we come to it, rather than to write it down in the master plan that we '11 build this motel before we '11 build another place. The only things that are very definite is that we're going to restore six buildings now. We're going to do extensive work on the temple block. So we're starting, right now as a Mtter of fact, our Salt Lake offices are working on house histories and such of the six restoration jobs that we're going to do, and we'll be in so~re of that work by next SumrrEr. 
Q. What are the six ones that you have in mind immediately? 
A. They're the Clark Store, the Raymond Clark Store by the Temple block, the M3.sonic Hall, the Scovil Bakery, the Lyon Drug Store, the Tirres and Seasons Print Shop, and then there will be a cobbler shop. And then we' 11 do extensive, actually, landscaping and beautification of the Temple block itself and that will be a project that we'll be working on next surnrrBr, too. So when we get through with those, they may say let 's do something else, but I can't say that. I just don't lmow. 
Q. But all these things are not necessarily in the order that they1re done, but everything that will eventually be done is already conceived of, is that right essentially? 
A. Well, in a sense that would be true. In other words, we have 1100 acres here, and every one of them have building sites on them, and very prominent things about them, and when and such that you' 11 get to them is a big question. We have the six now to do and the board rray core back) the board made up of Dr. Kimball as the president, and then three mem­bers, other members of the board. They' 11 come back and make a recom­mendation to the first presidency and say, "We'd like to do such and such," and if the first presidency says yea or nay we go from there, but that's the way it's handled. 
Q. Who does the board consist of? 
A. Well, it consists of Dr. Kimball, and John H. Vandenburg, and Mark 
E. Petersen, and ~Jbert Stapley. Dr. Kimball is the president of that board. 
Q. The board is the first body that decides what is to be done? 
A. They make a recoiT1!1Endation to the first presidency and the first 
presidency decides actually. In other words, in the church there's really just one body that really has the say in how they' 11 spend their money and that's the first presidency. That's the Prophet and his two counselors. other folks will recomnend to them, but they' 11 say yes or no we won't do that. It's really their prerogative. So this board would recol1l!1Bnd to them what they wanted to do and give them an idea of the extent of it and the amount that it would cost, and they would simply make their decision. 
Q. So they could even cut off a house or two if they thought it was too much, or just cut off so much money, or give so much money and the board would reconsider and that's how it goes? 
A. Yes, see like last October that board came here with the main pur­pose that they would pick out six projects for restoration. The board carre and picked out six projects and they went back and said we recormnend that we do these six projects, and the first presidency approved all of of them and said we'll do those six projects. They approved the money and we've started those gears to working in getting that job done by first having the historians to do their research. Next we'll have archaeological digging which will take place next sumner, and then we'll have architects to make architectural plans by reading and study­ing at least two reports, from the historians and the archaeological digging, and they'll make a set of architectural plans and then we'll actually do the construction. 
Q. And that's where you take over, from there? 
A. Well, I correlate these others sorrewhat. I have very little to do with the historians' report, other than to get it when they send it to rre and make it available to the architects and this sort of thing. 'Ihen I simply correlate their work. We don't want an archaeological dig done on a site that we're not going to restore, and that sort of thing. Just correlate when they'll do it and which summer they work on what pro­ject. 
Q. The architects are church architects? The church has its own bod,y of architects, right? 
Parley Holliday 
A. Yes, this is true, but our chief architect . • . we 1ve several. We've had quite a few architects~ as a ma.tter fact. The architect that we've had the oost success with is our recent architect, Steve Baird, and he's a rrerrner of the church, but he' privately employed. Yes, the church has an architectural firm and an architect's office and a bunch of architects, but Steve Baird will simply be oore of less work­ing under their direction, or them, to do the architectural plans for us. He isn't employed by them by the month, or such. 
Q. Who does the archaeological work? 
A. This is done now by Dr. rnle Berge at Brigham Young Uhiversity. hasn1t done all of our archaeological digs. 's done, oh, four or five sites for us. Dr. J. C. HerTington and his wife Virginia have done some 
our archaeological diggings for us. 
Q. Who physically helps them do that? · D:J they bring in a team from Brigham Young, or how is that done? 
A. Well, is normally what they do. They hire young fellows that are in the archaeological school and we're doing an archaeological dig and you actual on-the-job training for what you're studying for, then we're doing an archaeological dig at a certain , and they kind of line up six or eight of these fellows. 
Q. they're actually students in archaeology? 
A. Yes, there have been a few exceptions to that. 

Q. IX> they get any kind of credit for this, do you know, like do they 
get su.rrnrer graduate credit? 

A. Now, I really don't know that, possibly, I just don't know the answer. 
They are paid sorrewhat, but credit I don't know. I would think so. 

Q. Well, they're employed through Brigham Young University, then, or 
through Nauvoo Restoration, which we have money allocated for. 

Q. What I was referring to is whether you hire Brigham Young University 
to supply these people, or whether you just hire these people right out 
of Brigham Young Um versity .at the advice of 

A. This is generally what's done, just the advice the professor. 
He says I'm going to do a dig and how rrany of you fellows would be interest­
ed and I' put your narr:e down as a suggestion. 

Q. IX>es BYU or another of the other universities have anything speci­
fically to do with Nauvoo Restoration? Do they ma.ke use of its facili­
ties at all? 

A. Not very IIlliCh. 
Q. Do they at any of the other sites, do you know? 
A. Not that I know of. 
Q. Is there any other sites that you work on, or not you specifically, 
but that the church is working on, historic sites that have some rela­
tionship to do with church history? 

A. Oh, very definitely. Lots of them, Rick. I couldn't possibly narre 
all of them. From New York to Kansas City, and from Nauvoo west. 

Q. Are any of them as vast a scope as this one is? 
A. No, they aren't. Just a horre here and a horre there, and a farm here and those types of thing:>. Probably the one that's actually the biggestand would even be the most unique in comparison with this one would probably be over in the Independence, Missouri area. There's lots that probably would be done over there, but I'm just going to speculate and guess. There's lot of things there that, the church is doing lots of them now but there's a lot IIDre to do there. 
Q. Have you had anything to do with any of the other sites than the Nauvoo site? Is there anything within your area that you help with? 
A. Well, I have Carthage, the Carthage jail and the visitor's center at 
Carthage. They're considered as part of Nauvoo Restoration, but Carthagehas the jail where Joseph and Hiram were killed on that June day of 1844. We have the jail and we show people througp the jail. 
Q. I don't kn& whether this is in your area or not, but do they have any . • • is there any plans to bring in animals or any attempt to make it sort of appear as it would have appeared in 1840? 
A. JVbre and IIDre, Rick. You notice with those six buildings that we're going to do, now, they 1 re turning more to trades, things that were done, the Clark Store, the Scovil Bakery, the Lyon Drugstore, the Times and Seasons Print Shop, the boot shop, these types of things. The Browning site, the Jonathan Browning site, we'll probably put sore sheep and some ducks and some chickens on that project, even as early as next sUIIlll'Br, and put some life on the scene. We have a ... I say we, on the pro­ject here there are a couple of horses down at the blacksmith shop. But yes, we envision putting life on the scene instead of just having a dead house and a dead yard and dead fields. 
Q. You will have a cobbler shop, then and the drugstore will be stocked with the sort of thing:> that would have been in that drugstore. 
A. Well, we have contemplated it, Rick. I'm not really sure how that's going to work. I really don't know. You see we don't want to compete with the people uptown. We don't want to compete with the bakery here 
in town. 
8 
Q. I didn't rrean with the purpose to sell any of this material, 
just that you would have people doing this sort of thing as demonstration. 

A. 'Ibis is what we want. How we'd actually do those type things we 
really haven't worked that out, where the lady would actually bake seven­
teen loaves of bread this rrDming, and a few donuts to go with it, or 
exactly what she'll do we're not really sure. We'll actually fix the 
bakery and the other shops to set them up to do those types of things, 
and how much we do is the really big question. We can't give everybody 
a donut who corres to the town, at least I don't think we can. This 
is rre speaking, that we would give three hW1dred poW1ds of donuts away 
a year so that everybody would have a donut and they go in there and 
the bakery shop is working or something like that. So we're not sure 
how we're going to work that. But we' 11 set it up and be equipped for 
that purpose, but whether she'll cook it herself or what we don't really 
know. 

Q. Or give it to the missionaries. 
A. Maybe give it to the missionaries. 
Q. Mr. Farnworth trains the people that are at the sites, is that how that works? Are you still in charge of interpretation. You rrentioned something about that. 
A. Yes, I work with Dr. Kimball on the interpretation, and help in the training of the guides. Brother Farnworth is Director of the Center and our Guide Service here and he helps with the training. He's the day-by­day man to take care of the guests that come here. He directs the Guide Service for us on the project, W1der myself and Dr. KimbalL I handle the business end and I comsel with him on those types of things, but we give him somewhat of a free hand to move it along and get the job done. 
Q. How many of the people involved with Nauvoo Restoration are per­manent? I mean as opposed to missionaries. 
A. There are about twenty employees, paid employees, whereas there are about sixty-five missionaries, at least there ar'€' sixty-five in the summer­tirre. We go down to about forty-five or fifty in the winter. 
Q. Mbst of these people are under you in the physical aspects of the place, like cutting grass, and that sort of thing? 
A. Yes. 
Q. That's mostly the kind of employees you have here, just physical maintenance of the place. 
A. Yes. 
Q. And then the interpretation is mostly volW1teers? 
A. Yes. 
Q. There's no one other than you that's a permanent employee that has anything to do with being in charge of interpretation? 
A. This is correct, other than the executive secretary for Nauvoo Restoration in Salt Lake City. 
Q. That would be over your head, then, right? 
A. Well, no. She isn't ITlY boss by any means. We both work for Dr. Kimball and the board. She just sirrply helps me on that end of the pro­ject. I work with her and she works with rre. I'm not her boss and she's not mine, so to speak. We just kind of work together. She gets in on that, because she works with the historian, the chief historian, 
T. Edgar won. She works with him. She helps him with the secretarial work. She's a historian all her own, too. She's a great lady and she helps from that end. So the actual writing of house history she does get involved in and the interpretation of the history and such she gets involved in, even more than I do. 
Q. l'lbst of the material on Nauvoo, then is in Salt Lake City as a resource for the history of it? 
A. This is correct. 
Q. Is there very much available in Nauvoo itself? 
A. Oh you bet. There's lots available. 
Q. Do you ever get involved in the research of it? 
A. Not really. 
Q. That 's not up your line, huh? 
A. Well, Rick, I seem to have enough to do without getting involved in that. I get to sirrply read what somebody else has said, rather than actually digging it out ITlYSelf. I'd probably enjoy that. I've done lots of surveying as a civil engineer, and as such I've spent sorne hours in courthouses reading deeds and such, and going over pro­perty descriptions and those types of things, so I have had training in that direction. So I'd be interested in it, but I won't get involved, for exarrple, in writing the house history for one of these six projects. They will simply write the house history for me and then send me a copy and say, here's the house history as far as we have it to date, realizing that torrorrow you might find something else. 
Q. Then you yourself have to. find property boundaries and things for the different sites? Is that part of your work? 
A. Well, I help with that. No. 
Q. D:J you determine that through the records as someone else gives them to you? 
A. Yes, the historian takes care of all that for you. 
Q. D:J you have any other function in the community, other than work­ing at Nauvoo Restoration, in Nauvoo itself? 
A. Not really. I'm a rrenber of the Chanber of Commerce and merrber of the District Tourism, the super District of Tourism, and I have lots of church assig;nrrents and church affiliated jobs that have really very little to do with Nauvoo Restoration, but that's about the extent of it. 
Q. What is your position in the church? D:J you have sorre particular title? 
A. Well, I'm Branch President's Counselor. The Branch .President is the hi@l.est authority in the area of the LDS Church. I'm his Second Counse­lor, he has two counselors. 
Q. Now you mentioned that you belong to the Chamber of CoiYn'l'Brce and the Tourist Commission. What kind of personal input have you put in to those? 
A. Very little, Rick. Actually just kind of a paid member, so to speak. I just really don't have rmch time. Rea1ly. I perhaps ougpt to do more, in fact I 1mow I should do ITDre. Possibly I will get to do more now that I have ... we've got sorrewhat a little better organization than what we have had. 
Q. Have you had any ideas as to how Nauvoo as a community can cooperate with the sites? As it is now, there's just two places where people can go; the Joseph Smith Historic Center, and the Nauvoo Visitor's Center. That's about it, even the Historical Society Museum isn't much of a place to go yet. Do you have any idea what the community itself can do to make it more a tourist attraction? 
A. Oh, I think about that, yes. All the tirre. But as to doing any­thing concrete on it I' ve really never done anything concrete, but yes, I think about it all the tire. We're spending lots of money here, not with the idea of getting 
END OF SIDE ONE 
Q. So then your functions with the community just mainly involve your work with Nauvoo Restoration? 
A. That's right, Rick. I really haven't done enough with the community. 
Q. Well, you haven't really been here that long, either, have you? 
A. Well, four years, but I guess like I said I've been too busy, which 
is really no excuse at all, but I guess that's what I've said. 

Q. DJ you have a:oy idea what the Chanber of Coi11!'Erce has in mind for 
Nauvoo? 

A. No. 
Q, I know they have a tape thing. 
A. Yes, they have a tape tour. 
Q. You as a rremeber of the Chi3l'l'ber of Corrmerce haven't come across a:oy other ideas that they've come up with for Nauvoo? 
A. No, not really. 'Ihey're constantly pushing getting the tourists here, you bet. It's a typical one thousand population town, I guess. You know, everything ooves kind of slowly. 
Q. D:> you belong to the Historical Society, too? 
A. No I don't . 
Q. To your knowledge, does that really have any :function in the com­munity at all? 
A. Oh, you bet it does. I'm sure it does. 
Q. What do you personally know that it does? 
A. Well, it creates interest among people for the appreciation of what people have done in the past, and the things that they had to work with, the inconveniences of life and the conveniences of life that we have now, so it creates a matter of understanding that these people don't get anywhere else. We haven't always had airplanes flying around, and dish­washers to wash our dishes in, and perma-press clothes and these ladies of the 1840's and the men, too, had a lot of hard times, so to take people back into history I think helps them to appreciate what they have now and appreciate their grandparents. Now you take-I've thougpt a lot about Emma Smith lately. Ernrn9. Smith, no doubt, was a tremendous lady. Can you imagine Emma not ever having Joseph at hone, you know. Some­body bothering him all the tine, can we see the Prophet, we cone to talk to him, we're from sore place, we've come here and want to see him, and him coming home and saying, "Sweetheart, we've got three extra people for supper tonight," and she saying, ''Well, we've already got seven or eight, and what ' s three more , " and . . . 
Q. Have you ever considered a:oy way of getting this across to the pub­lic? 'Ihe ideas of what it ITD.lSt have been like to be the Prophet here at that tine, or a:oy particular individual at that tirre? 
A. No. Other than just to do what we're doing. We tell that story. We're going to have the bicentennial up here, and have a pageant, at least we're hoping we will where we get to tell that story more in de­tail and make it alive, an outside, live production, pageant-type thing and hopefully we' 11 get to tell this story there, so people get an in­sight of the problems. It takes about all the time that I can muster just to keep this thing going and keep my head above water, keep the bills paid and get this all together. 
Q. Sorre comnunities have come up with, or just sorre historic centers have come up with craft festivals and things. Do you have any ideas on doing special progr8.m3 at certain tines of the year, certain events? 
A. We don't have anything like that in the near future, no, Rick, and I'm familiar with what you say. MY wife--I didn't go with her, I was over at Champaign-Urbana--but Il1Y wife went to one of these over at Can­ton, and Havana, just a few weekends ago. She went to one of these crafts display type of things. We don't envision that right at the morrent . There's a lot of interest in history, more than I've ever seen before. It's all over the country. It seems like every little town now wants to find out who was famous in their little town. In the store I heard two men the other day at our tourism rreeting. They were saying we better hurry up and buy Wyatt Earp's homeplace before it goes up too high, see, so we better hurry up and get it so nobody else will get it. So, there's lot of interest all over the country for history and I think it's good because as I rentioned before, it's just good to find out what your great­granddaddy had to go through, and it makes you a little prouder of him. He may not have, could have spoken as well, he may not have used as good English, or he may have used better, as far as that goes, but there may have been sorre things that we do better than he did, and we haven't appreciated him because we didn't know the circwrBtances surrounding them, so I think it's terrific what's happening in the country, that we do get to think about what's happened and how blessed we really are. 
Q. What you're doing here, do you intend to stay at this for quite a while? To be in Nauvoo? 
A. Rick, that's a hard question. A very difficult question. 
Q. Will it affect your future plans in any way? Do you have anything in mind that you' d like to do because of what you've done here? 
A. No. I suppose I'll stay in Nauvoo and enjoy this beautiful spot as long as they 111 have me, as long as I can be productive and be of service to the project, I suppose that I'll stay. 
Q. Do you think that you've learned anything from Nauvoo that could put you in perhaps sorre other historic site to manage it? 
A. Oh, you bet. I'm sure that's true. All of our people that have been here have used Nauvoo, so to speak, as a--seems to be somewhat of a stepping stone to something greater. Steve Baird, the architect, now I'm sure has more calls than he can possibly handle just to do a restora­tion job sorewhere. Steve's a great man on his own, but I'm thinking that the idea that he was connected with Nauvoo Restoration has helped 
13 
his name somewhat to make him more desirable to other people, so yes, this is true. All of our people have used this for a stepping stone to do something better or get in higher positions or do something that they would call greater. 
Q. I.b you have any plans in the future to use the facilities of both sites for anything, or any cooperative ventures with the Joseph Smith Historic Center or anything? 
A. We get along very well with the Historic Center down at the Joseph Smith property, at least we think we do. 'lliey do a wonderful job. 'lliey keep their grounds and their fac1llties nice, and hopefully we get along perfectly with them. There are a few thing:;, I guess minor things, that we join up with them. 'lliere isn't anything major that they've come up with or that we 1 ve come up with that we' d join together on. 
Q. But you don't rule out the possibility? 
A. Oh, no. We get along fine with them, at least I think we do. I hope we do. 
Q. I.b you intend to use missionary guides all the time here, or do you have any plans to bring in permanent guides? 
A. No, we see it as a place for our missionaries to come and labor, for them to devote 18 months to 2 years, or 6 months if they're just the young elders, and get our guide service from them. 
Q. I.b you think it benefits them in any way, having been here? 
A. Oh, you bet. By all means. They go home and say it's the finest time in their life, the grandest experience of their life, and it's true. There are some disadvantages to doing it that way. If we had permanent employees, you could more or less train the guy, and he's trained, You wouldn't be training all the time. We spent three hours this morning in a training session. We're constantly losing some guides and bringing some in, so we're constantly training, every week, every day, we're constantly training, and so there are some disadvantages, but we 1 11 no doubt stick with the program we have. 
Q. Well, I can't think of anything else in particular I'd like to talk about. Do you have any comments to make about Nauvoo? 
A. No, it's been good to talk to you, especially now that I know who you are. 
Q. Well, thank you. 
END OF TAPE